2005年10月31日

泄露中情局“特工案”的来龙去脉

一、根本没有泄露中情局“特工案”

美国的特工保护法(USC 50-421)明确规定,只有CIA的秘密特工“covert agent”,在过去五年之内曾经在海外使用秘密身份工作过的CIA雇员才受其保护。

Wilson的太太,Plame,曾经是CIA驻海外的秘密特工。但是,那是从案发起五年以前的事情了。案发时,Plame本人每天自己开车到CIA的一处知名的办公楼上班。据Wilson自己在他的书中透露,Plame在他们第二次约会时,就告知Wilson,她在CIA工作。

当初制定和具体写这条法律的Victoria Toensing在电视上公开说,她相信USC 50-421根本没有被违反。

Plame在CIA的前上司Fred Rustmann在华盛顿时报上说,Plame的邻居们,朋友们,Wilson的朋友们,都知道她为CIA工作。

更重要的是,在特别检察官Patrick Fitzgerald(简称Fitz)在他的指控书中和后来的新闻发布会上,也不得不暗示Plame不是秘密特工。他没有使用“Covert Agent”这个法律术语。同时,没有任何人被以暴露中情局特工身份的罪名起诉,这正是说明了,没有什么泄露中情局“特工案”。从一开始,就没有犯罪发生。

Fitz在指控书中使用了“classified"这个用语。从法律意义上,这并没有特别的意义。事实上,中情局的大部分雇员,一旦他们被雇佣,他们的雇员身份就自动是保密的“classified”。这不过是公开的秘密: Plame本人每天自己开车到CIA的一处知名的办公楼上班。一个外国的情报机构想要知道她为中情局工作是轻而易举的,他们只要观察一下Plame每天去哪里上班就完了。这样的所谓“秘密”被公开,是否会危害国家安全是由很大疑问的。

在过去的两年里,主流媒体不断地报道Plame的“covert”身份,以此来指责布什总统和要求调查泄露她“covert”身份的"犯罪"。据统计,“covert”一词曾经被报道过3000多次。这些报道都是不对的。不过,不要指望主流媒体会撤回,或更正他们试图灌输给美国人民的错误信息。

在Fitz检察官的指控书正式出笼后,还有有媒体用“covert”来说明Plame的身份,例如,时代周刊的最新报道。这不过是主流媒体搞新闻诈骗的又一个经典事例。

有证据表明,Fitz检察官在调查一开始就清楚,Plame不是秘密特工;没有法律被违反。那么,他为什么还要继续调查一个根本是莫须有的犯罪?不要指望主流媒体会提出这样的疑问。

二、一个叫Wilson的骗子

Wilson的主要谎言有:

1,他声称他去非洲的调查是由切尼副总统指派他去的; 与他夫人无关。

这是谎言。事实上,把威尔逊这个左派活动分子,后来John Kerry的竞选顾问竭力推荐到Niger调查萨达姆核问题的,不是别人,正是他的夫人Plame,一个CIA的左派分析师。

在国家处于战争时期,特意推荐有严重党派倾向,没有专业情报训练的自己的丈夫去Niger进行一次充满政治意味的所谓“调查”,以便用这种似是而非的调查来破坏对反恐战争的支持,这是典型的任人唯亲,玩忽职守。

2,他声称他去非洲的报告否定了布什国情咨文中的16个字。

这是谎言。事实上,恰恰相反。Wilson为了左派的政治图谋,竟然不惜对自己的报告说谎。他宣称他的“调查”证明了布什说谎。事实是他这样的宣称才是彻底的谎言。Wilson去非洲的报告根本没有否定布什在国情咨文中的16个字:即萨达姆曾经试图从非洲购买核原料(The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa)。

2004年7月,参议院调查CIA情报收集工作的报告发现,威尔逊自己的Niger报告原来是支持了,而不是削弱了萨达姆在Niger寻求核原料的指控!而且,这份一致通过,没有异议的参议院调查CIA情报工作的报告发现,布什在国情咨文中那个著名的16字是有根有据的。

Wilson还声称切尼看过他的报告。那是他的另外的一个谎言。

3,Wilson声称他的夫人是CIA秘密特工。

这是谎言。事实上,Wilson自己应该最清楚她太太的身份呢。他在自己的书中还炫耀这一点呢。Plame根本不是秘密特工,这一点本文上面已经有具体说明。

Wilson的谎言太多了,这里不能一一列举。Wilson的种种谎言是证据确凿,白纸黑字记录在案的。主流媒体在报道所谓中情局“特工案”时,却只字不提。更是把他描绘成一个受害者。这是十足的新闻诈骗。

三、泄露“特工案”与对伊战争的关系

左派媒体在报道泄露“特工案”时,常常把这作为一个证据,证明布什政府采用不法手段欺骗美国人民,以便对伊拉克动武。这种说法有一个明显的漏洞,那就是Plame的假“特工”身份被泄露是在2003年5月份,在对伊的正面战争已经结束以后。

左派媒体往往还会顺便提到大规模杀伤性武器(WMD)不存在等说法来证明布什说谎。事实上,即使WMD的确不存在,也不能在逻辑上推导出来布什说谎.只有明知不存在却非要说存在,才是说谎。布什不是情报人员,他的判断和决策是基于专业情报人员的工作成果。在战前的一次决定性的会议上,布什询问CIA主任George Tenet,他对伊拉克的WMD问题有多大信心。Tenet的回答是那句著名的“总统先生,这是一点不偏的大灌篮(Slam Dunk)!”。顺便说一句,Tenet是由前克林顿总统任命的主任,有一定的左派倾向。

布什在WMD问题上没有撒谎。没有半句谎言。他的所有讲话都有出处。而且他和其他国家领导人,包括很多中东国家领导人一样,真心相信萨达姆拥有WMD。更何况,布什从来没有把WMD作为攻伊的唯一目标。萨达姆公然违反停火协议,支持恐怖分子,阴谋暗杀前总统等等任何一项都足以构成动武的充足理由。

萨达姆拥有WMD,这是战前国际社会的一致结论,这包括几乎所有发达国家的情报机构,例如英国,法国,意大利等等,也包括联合国自己的报告,还包括前克林顿政府的情报结论和克林顿的多次公开讲话。98年克林顿犯有伪证罪被弹劾之时,他下令对伊拉克的大规模轰炸,用的也是这个理由。萨达姆更是对伊拉克人民使用过WMD。WMD虽然找不到;萨达姆销毁WMD的证据也找不到。

是谁在说谎?是那些当国家处于战争时期,把自己政党的利益置于国家安全之上的左派们。是专业骗子Wilson等人。他们不计后果的卑劣行为危害了反恐战争的胜利目标,他们在一定程度上对美国年轻大兵的死亡负责。

左派媒体一方面不断强调WMD不存在,暗示布什说谎;一方面对当初中情局主任的方言一字不提;对战前各国的情报结论一字不提。他们为了破坏美国的反恐战争和诋毁布什,不惜搞新闻诈骗,欺骗美国人民。

四、对Libby的指控

Fitz检察官对Libby的伪证罪和妨害司法公正罪指控一出,左派政客们纷纷出动,对布什政府大加鞭挞。例如前总统候选人John Kerry说,“这显示白宫的腐败程度达到了顶峰”。

前面说到,Wilson大言不惭地说谎道,是切尼指派他去非洲调查的。Libby为了澄清这一针对他的老板谎言,除了说明真相,还能怎么做?

然而,阅读共22页的指控原文,其中并没有提到白宫有任何的违法或密谋的事实。相反,Fitz检察官的指控更让人相信他所指控的行为是Libby个人所为。

Libby在这个莫须有的泄露“特工案”之前,根本不象Karl Rove那样为一般美国人所知。他的主要工作不过是副总统的办公书主任。要说白宫的腐败程度达到了顶峰,那真是没有自知之明:克林顿前总统被控以完全一样的罪名,并且已经被美国众议院弹劾。这对于任期间丑闻不断的克林顿总统,不算是当代白宫的腐败程度达到了顶峰?

Libby是否有罪,要等到案件判决之日才知道。从指控书看,这是一个比较弱的案子(weak case)。但是,如果Libby的确是故意对大陪审团说谎,那么他是罪有应得的。法律是严肃的,任何人都绝对不应该对陪审团故意说谎。对此不应该有双重标准。

左派媒体在指控明朗后,突然把Libby刻画成一个特别重要的角色。而在此之前,他们宣传说布什是傻瓜;Karl Rove替布什做所有的决定。

当年,当左派媒体所爱戴的好总统被弹劾时,左派媒体的名嘴和左派政客们非要狡辩道,克林顿被指控的对陪审团说谎其实不算是什么罪行,没什么大不了的。如今,他们又实行双重标准,象过圣诞节那样来庆祝Libby个人被指控的伪证罪。假如Libby的确在宣誓下说谎,他就是一个罪犯。同样的,左派的英雄,克林顿也是一个罪犯。左派们当年为罪犯的各种说辞就是诈骗。

五、总结

莫须有的泄露中情局“特工案”,不但不是左派媒体所报道的那样,是布什欺骗美国人民同意攻伊的骗局中的一环;而是恰恰相反。从这个所谓泄露“特工案”的来龙去脉和各种被左派媒体故意隐瞒的具体事实可以看出,此案恰恰说明左派政客和媒体如何地公开地说谎,搞新闻诈骗,破坏美国正在进行的反恐战争的努力。最近国防部长Rumsfield在答记者问时说到,美军在伊拉克不存在失败的可能性;美军唯一可能的失败,只会是在美国本土被打败。正在对此推波助澜,希望美军失败而归的,正是从冷战以来一直是更多地选择和美国的敌人站在一起的美国左派政客和媒体。



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36 条评论:

ausobserver 说...

据Wilson自己在他的书中透露,Plame在他们第二次约会时,就告知Wilson,她在CIA工作。

拿出原文来。你一定是施瓦辛格电影true lies看多了,告诉自己未来老公应该不违法吧?

当初制定和具体写这条法律的Victoria Toensing在电视上公开说,她相信USC 50-421根本没有被违反。

三权分立的好处就在于违法不违法不是立法人说的算的。

Plame在CIA的前上司Fred Rustmann在华盛道时报上说,Plame的邻居们,朋友们,Wilson的朋友们,都知道她为CIA工作。

拿出具体哪个邻居朋友知道的证据来。上周FBI探访了几个邻居,都说不知道。


他声称他去非洲的调查是由切尼副总统指派他去的。
拿出原文证据来,不要道听途说。他从来没有声称是切尼指派他去的。


2004年7月,参议院调查CIA情报收集工作的报告发现,威尔逊自己的Niger报告原来是支持了,而不是削弱了萨达姆在Niger寻求核原料的指控!而且,这份一致通过,没有异议的参议院调查CIA情报工作的报告发现,布什在国情咨文中那个著名的16字是有根有据的。

什么叫瞎子摸象?你引用的文章里有这么一段话:
Did Iraq, in fact, try to buy uranium in Niger? The Senate Intelligence Committee report accepted the CIA's ultimate assessment ? not reached until after the war ? that there was little, if any, credible evidence available to U.S. intelligence to support the charge that Iraq sought, let alone bought, uranium from Niger.

Wilson还声称切尼看过他的报告。那是他的另外的一个谎言。

这是你们混淆视听的一个talking point,拿出wilson说过此话的证据来。

匿名 说...

Here's a short list of potential criminal violations for which prosecutors decided not to file indictments during the Clinton administration.

? Lying under oath to a federal judge - a crime U.S. District Court Judge Susan Webber Wright determined that President Clinton committed in the Paula Jones sexual harasssment case. Legal resolution: No criminal indictment.

? Lying under oath to a federal grand jury - as Independent Counsel Ken Starr found President Clinton had done in the Monica Lewinsky investigation. Legal resolution: No criminal indictment.

? Lying under oath both to Congress and to federal investigators - as Independent Counsel Robert Ray concluded that Mrs. Clinton had done in the Travel Office probe. Legal resolution: No indictment

? Hiding evidence from Starr's Whitewater investigation - as the Senate Banking Committee concluded Mrs. Clinton did in the case of her missing Rose Law firm billing records. Legal resolution: No criminal referral, no indictments.

? Trading presidential pardons for finanical contributions - which President Clinton allegedly did in the Pardongate case. Legal resolution: No indictments.

? Trading presidential clemency for votes in a federal election - as President Clinton allegedly did with village elders in New Square, NY - which backed Mrs. Clinton's 2000 Senate candidacy 1400 to 12. Legal resolution: No indictments.

? Nuclear missile guidance technology allegedly traded by the Clinton adminsitration to China in exchange for campaign contributions. Legal resolution: No indictments.

? The Illegal gathering of confidential FBI files on political opponents - as the Clinton White House did in the Filegate case. Legal resolution: No indictments.

? Misusing the IRS to audit political opponents - as the White House allegedly did with numerous conservative organizations, as well as with witnesses against the Clintons. Legal resolution: No indictments.

? Hiring private detectives to intimidate and/or smear potential witnesses in the Starr investigation. Legal resolution: No indictments.

? Illegally leaking Linda Tripp's confidential personnel file to the press. Legal resolution: No indictments.

匿名 说...

Please allow me to add the following by Charles Smith at Newsmax:
RED MOLE IN CIA HQ

The increased threat of Chinese spies inside the CIA has put the U.S. intelligence agency on full alert. There is currently an agency-wide counterintelligence focus on a suspected Chinese penetration. The Chinese mole hunt has focused on CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

匿名 说...

In his dual role as Cheney's chief of staff and adviser to Bush, Libby has had extraordinary influence and access in all aspects of White House policy-making, particularly national security. He was an expert in homeland security and weapons of mass destruction even before Sept. 11, 2001, and used that knowledge to shape administration policy after the terrorist attacks.

今日评论员 说...

>> 拿出原文来。你一定是施瓦辛格电影true lies看多了,告诉自己未来老公应该不违法吧?

原文在书里面你去买一本学学怎样说谎吧。假如Plame真的是COVERT AGENT,那就是违法。不折不扣地违法。

>> 三权分立的好处就在于违法不违法不是立法人说的算的。

1, Fitz没有检控你所说的违法行为。2,我们这是在COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION里面辩论谁更合逻辑。

>> 拿出具体哪个邻居朋友知道的证据来。上周FBI探访了几个邻居,都说不知道。

证人就是Plame在CIA的前上司Fred Rustmann

to be cont'd

今日评论员 说...

>> 什么叫瞎子摸象?你引用的文章里有这么一段话: .......

我引用的文章是要说明Wilson的Op-Ed竟然与他自己的报告矛盾。文章中相关的话是:

But in its new report, the Senate Intelligence Committee says Wilson's report from Niger modestly bolstered the case for an Iraq-Niger connection.


具体地说,Wilson当时声称:

it was highly unlikely that anything was going on.” (Senate Intelligence Cmte., Iraq 42, July 2004).


所以说他自己竟然谎报自己的报告的内容。证据确凿。

这里只是为了讨论骗子Wilson的可信度问题。与骗子Wilson报告以外的事情无关。

>>他从来没有声称是切尼指派他去的。

你们左派媒体的旗舰Jane Fanda电视台的记者报道的,除非你承认CNN在这里撒谎或者故意误导观众:

CALLEBS: In an opinion piece for the "New York Times" today, Wilson wrote, the CIA sent him to Niger at the request of Vice President Dick Cheney's office......

Now, with regard to ambassador Wilson's charge that it was actually the vice president's office that ordered him to go......


>>Wilson还声称切尼看过他的报告。
这是你们混淆视听的一个talking point,拿出wilson说过此话的证据来。


还是上面的链接:
Now, with regard to ambassador Wilson's charge that it was actually the vice president's office that ordered him to go and that they did know about his conclusion that the information was faulty before the State of the Union Address,

Wilson的Op-Ed原文是这样说的:

......a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice president (this may have been delivered orally).

今日评论员 说...

〉〉there was little, if any, credible evidence available to U.S. intelligence to support the charge that Iraq sought, let alone bought, uranium from Niger.

英国的最后调查报告的结论是萨达姆的确谋求从非洲购买核原料。

今日评论员 说...

>> 上周FBI探访了几个邻居,都说不知道。

1,这个说法与Fred Rustmann不一样,需要当庭对质。
2,媒体关于FBI调查的报道没有说Plame的邻居们都说不知道她的身份。相反,媒体的报道只是引述了接受采访的个别人的说法。
3,美国社会的一般情况是,邻居们不是很熟,朋友们才比较亲密。Plame的邻居们不知道她的身份也很正常。
4,Fitz的指控书中只是说他的身份不是“common knowledge”,并不排除一些人知道。
5,最关键的是,Plame是否是“秘密特工”。回答只有两种:是,否。

ausobserver 说...

我说的很清楚,拿出Wilson说话原文证据来。CNN的记者又不是圣人,当然也会道听途说以假当真。

关于邻居朋友知不知道的问题,解决办法很简单:找出任何一位邻居朋友出来作证说知道她的身份不就解决了?

今日评论员 说...

你的意思是,CNN的报道不值得信赖?以后CNN的来源都不可以引用,一定要最原始最原始的原文?哈哈!

ausobserver 说...

你我的区别在于你对foxnews, WSJ, whitehouse等吐出来的东西信如圣旨,豪不怀疑;我尽管认为CNN相对Foxnews来说更为客观一点,但仍会经常犯错误,对待任何媒体来源都保持一定警惕性。

http://mediamatters.org/items/200510280010
In covering the October 28 indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby for his role in the alleged outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame, CNN senior political correspondent John King falsely claimed that on the July 6, 2003, broadcast of NBC's Meet the Press, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, Plame's husband, claimed that Vice President Dick Cheney sent him to Niger in 2002. In fact, Wilson never made that claim on Meet the Press, nor has Media Matters for America been able to identify any instance in which Wilson has claimed Cheney sent him to Niger. The false claim that Wilson stated or implied that Cheney sent him to Niger is significant to the controversy surrounding the alleged outing of Plame. The administration's defenders have claimed that the White House had a legitimate interest in setting the record straight by disclosing that Plame, not Cheney, was actually responsible for Wilson's being sent to Niger. The assertion that Plame recommended Wilson is in dispute, and the CIA has refuted it.
From CNN's October 28 live coverage of the Libby indictments:
KING: And you will remember, once Joe Wilson went public, one of the things he said that infuriated the White House is he said publicly, I believe it was on the NBC program Meet the Press, but I'm not positive, that it was the vice president who asked the CIA to send him, and that is when the vice president's office geared up their effort even more to rebut that fact. They said the vice president had no knowledge of the trip, did not request the trip at all. I believe everyone agrees now that what happened was the vice president said he wanted more information about Saddam's nuclear program, or alleged nuclear program, and the CIA then decided one way to get that information was to have this Wilson trip take place.
In his July 6, 2003, appearance on Meet the Press, Wilson never claimed that Cheney's office requested he investigate the reported sale of uranium from Niger to Iraq. Instead, Wilson said: "The question [regarding Iraq's reported attempts to obtain uranium from Niger] was asked of the CIA by the office of the vice president." King's statement echoes the false Republican National Committee talking point that "Wilson falsely claimed that it was Vice President Cheney who sent him to Niger."

解决这个争议的办法很简单,请你找出wilson任何说过此话的原文,我就认错。

ausobserver 说...

据Wilson自己在他的书中透露,Plame在他们第二次约会时,就告知Wilson,她在CIA工作。

假如Plame真的是COVERT AGENT,那就是违法。不折不扣地违法。


Wilson本人当时是国家安全委员会主管非洲事务的高级官员,应该有security clearance, Plame告诉他应该不违法。

今日评论员 说...

恰恰相反,在这个问题上,我更相信CNN的解读.

Wilson的原文既可以理解为副总统指派他去调查,也可以理解为是副总统要CIA调查,CIA指派Wilson去。

CNN的解读是前者。在切尼出来澄清以前,绝大多数媒体的解读是前者。Wilson并没有试图澄清。

所以,是Wilson自己误导,而不能说大家的正常解读不对。


〉〉 Wilson本人当时是国家安全委员会主管非洲事务的高级官员,应该有security clearance, Plame告诉他应该不违法。

你有证据吗?即使有clearance,还有级别和NEED-TO-KNOW的说法。

今日评论员 说...

哈哈,原文来了:

CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. … Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?”

Joe Wilson: “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.

In his book, Wilson writes, "Apart from being the conduit for a message from a colleague in her office asking if I would be willing to have a conversation about Niger's uranium industry [with CIA counter-proliferation experts], Valerie had had nothing to do with the matter. Though she worked on weapons of mass destruction issues, she was not at the meeting I attended where the subject of Niger's uranium was discussed, when the possibility of my actually traveling to the country was broached. She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip."

ausobserver 说...

what is your point

今日评论员 说...

my point is it's a set of lies:

1,他声称他去非洲的调查是由切尼副总统指派他去的; 与他夫人无关。

He lied and he has no credibility. period.

bellevue 说...

Libby lied under oath. Why did he do that?

如果象今评说的,泄露 Plame 身份不违法,他何必如此,用犯罪的手段去掩盖呢?

今日评论员 说...

那是Libby的个人行为,我怎么知道?

今日评论员 说...

from NewsMax

NBC Washington bureau chief Tim Russert told Leakgate probers that he had no idea Joe Wilson's wife Valerie Plame was a CIA employee before her name surfaced in Robert Novak's fateful July 14, 2003 column, and that he was stunned upon learning that Lewis "Scooter" Libby claimed he got that information from him.

But an account by senior NBC correspondent Andrea Mitchell raises questions about whether Mr. Russert may have known about Plame's employment well before the Novak column.

On Oct. 3, 2003, Mitchell was a guest on CNBC's now-defunct "Capital Report," where she was asked by host Alan Murray:

"Do we have any idea how widely known it was in Washington that Joe Wilson's wife worked for the CIA?"

Mitchell replied: "It was widely known among those of us who cover the intelligence community and who were actively engaged in trying to track down who among the foreign service community was the envoy to Niger. So a number of us began to pick up on that."

Mitchell's "widely known" characterization flatly contradicts assertions last Friday by Leakgate Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, who repeatedly insisted that Plame's association with the CIA "was not widely known."

But perhaps more importantly, if Plame's work was an open secret in media circles [according to Mitchell], how is it that her boss, Mr. Russert, who - as NBC Washington bureau chief was presumably monitoring developments in "the intelligence community" as they related to the Wilson story - would have been oblivious to this same "widely known" information?

And, Fitzgerald's report doesn't point out that the ONLY proper response from Libby to Russert's question was to deny he knew that, because if he confirmed it, then he WOULD be guilty of divulging classified information!

So if I know it, but you don't KNOW that I know it........

ausobserver 说...

也许我的阅读理解能力有限,你引用的采访里并没有wilson自己说是切尼指派他的?至于他夫人有没有参与派他的决定,是有争议的问题:


http://mediamatters.org/items/200510280009

From CNN's October 28 breaking-news coverage:

ENSOR: Secondly, the suggestion that's been out there quite a bit -- and there's even some discussion of it in the Senate Intelligence Committee report -- that Valerie Plame suggested her husband be sent to Niger. I have talked to very high intelligence officials who say that just isn't true. That it was senior officers above her who had the idea of sending Ambassador Wilson, knowing that he'd been in Niger before and was an experienced hand in Africa, a former ambassador on that continent. And they thought he'd be good. They then went to her and said, "Well, what do you think?" She responded with an email that said, "Yes, he'd be good for the following reasons." That was in response to higher-ups at the CIA who suggested that Joe Wilson be sent.

今日评论员 说...

>> 也许我的阅读理解能力有限,你引用的采访里
并没有wilson自己说是切尼指派他的

你这回承认Wilson自己说他的非洲行与他夫人无关了?

“切尼指派”一说的证据前面已经转过,分析过了。

匿名 说...

提供一篇文章,看看Wilson撒谎的本领:

http://www.seixon.com/blog/archives/2005/11/king_wilson_of.html

澳看这种除了站队、摆姿态放正义屁的怎么还在活跃者。

libby是个蠢货,不过这里面估计没有什么泄密案件。民主党7月份提交的试图对过去也有效力的修正案也说明了现有法律中没有类似条款。

今日评论员 说...

>> 布什政府即使在武器问题上没有说谎

好,请 AUSOBSERVER先正式承认如下事实再继续讨论:

1,布什在武器问题上没有说谎; 指责布什说谎的人才是胡扯.
2,Plame不是COVERT AGENT
3,媒体使用3000多次COVERT AGENT是胡扯。继续使用这样的说法是新闻诈骗。


so what? 克林顿认为有WMD就是你们的救命稻草了?老布什、克林顿都认为用containment的政策来解决伊拉克的问题,你怎么不提了?事实证明,伊拉克没有WMD, 说明containment的战略奏效了,是明智的选择

哈哈哈哈,请 AUSOBSERVER 回答如下问题:

1,萨达姆把联合国武器检查小组统统赶走,克林顿有什么办法没有?
2,最后是谁,通过什么方法让萨达姆乖乖接受联合国武器检查小组的?
3,老布什当政时期萨达姆把联合国武器检查小组赶走没有?
4,老布什的containment是否包括第一次海湾战争?
5,萨达姆多次公开违法第一次海湾战争停火协议,克林顿有什么办法没有?
6,萨达姆多次公开向美军飞机开火,克林顿有什么办法没有?
7,萨达姆企图暗杀美国前总统,克林顿有什么办法没有?
8,萨达姆派他的高级情报人员与基地组织街头,克林顿有什么办法没有?
9,萨达姆让基地外围组织在伊拉克搞训练营地,克林顿有什么办法没有?
10,萨达姆和联合国,法国等操纵石油换食品计划,贪污,非法挪用数百亿美元,克林顿有什么办法没有?

以上事实,都是你的containment战略的成果。

匿名 说...

ausobserver,

Please read this:

Wilson Outed His Own Wife A Year Before Novak Column
? Identified Wife as CIA to Retired General in 2002

Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely told WorldNetDaily that Joe Wilson mentioned Valerie Plame's status as a CIA operative in at least three, possibly five, separate conversations in 2002 in the Fox News Channel's "green room" in Washington, D.C., as they waited to appear on air as analysts. "He was rather open about his wife working at the CIA," said Vallely, who retired in 1991 as the Army's deputy commanding general in the Pacific.
Source Article: WorldNetDaily

匿名 说...

bellevue said...
Libby lied under oath. Why did he do that?

如果像今评说的,泄露 Plame 身份不违法,他何必如此,用犯罪的手段去掩盖呢?

It would be more appropriate for you to add "was accused to have" between 'Libby' and 'lied'. Note: Libby has not been convicted.

ausobserver 说...

To anonymous:

The article you quote from worldnetdaily is interesting. I hope he will be subpoenaed in the Libby trial to testify under oath, assuming the article is authentic.

coze 说...

http://www.youpai.org
这个网址打不开在国内!

ausobserver (fwd) 说...

布什在武器问题上没有说谎; 指责布什说谎的人才是胡扯

http://www.bushlies.net/pages/9/index.htm

Plame不是COVERT AGENT
媒体使用3000多次COVERT AGENT是胡扯。继续使用这样的说法是新闻诈骗。

link

Did the information identify Plame as a "covert agent"? Or was Plame a "covert agent"?
Under the statutory definition, a "covert agent" under 50 U.S.C. 426(4)(A) includes someone:
Who is an employee of an intelligence agency,
Whose identity as an employee of the intelligence agency is classified, and
"Who is serving outside the United States or has with the last five years served outside the United States"
But look at the literal text above. The statute says nothing about being "assigned to duty outside the United States" or "permanent assignment in a foreign country." Plame must have merely "served" the CIA outside the United States. This wording was no oversight, since an alternate definition of "covert agent" under 50 U.S.C. 426(4)(B) specifies someone who "resides and acts outside the United States." You "reside" in the country where you have a permanent assignment, but you can "serve" the agency outside the United States in the manner described by Plame's former C.I.A. colleague, Larry Johnson:
"I can tell by virtue of how that [CIA from] company was set up. She was traveling overseas as a consultant in order to meet individuals who would have access, could be either agents of access, could be possible recruits to become spies for the United States in the area of about chemical, biological or nuclear weapons." Testimony before the Senate Democratic Policy Committee on July 22, 2005 [PDF]
In fact "serving outside the United States" can mean something very temporary. A grunt who spent two months in Tikrit "served" in Iraq. Condoleezza Rice travels to the Middle East in the service of the United States.
If Plame regularly traveled outside the U.S. for C.I.A business during the past five years, she was a "covert agent."

萨达姆把联合国武器检查小组统统赶走,克林顿有什么办法没有?
最后是谁,通过什么方法让萨达姆乖乖接受联合国武器检查小组的?

你这是本末倒置了。核查小组不是目的,而是手段,其最终作用是为了核实武器问题。威胁使用武力的确起到了迫使萨达姆合作的作用,但布什政府并没有让核查小组完成工作,就急着开战了。事实证明,如果当时允许Hans Blix完成工作,确认了伊拉克确实没有多少违禁武器,也就不至于今天了。

萨达姆多次公开违法第一次海湾战争停火协议,克林顿有什么办法没有?
萨达姆多次公开向美军飞机开火,克林顿有什么办法没有?
萨达姆企图暗杀美国前总统,克林顿有什么办法没有?

你们现在说克林顿手软,当时克林顿命令轰炸时都在边上说风凉话。话说回来,我又不是克林顿的崇拜者,不要老拿他来比。

萨达姆和联合国,法国等操纵石油换食品计划,贪污,非法挪用数百亿美元,克林顿有什么办法没有?

非法挪用几百亿美元的国家元首多了,也没见都挨美国轰炸占领。

你说的这些问题,归根结底是,到底伊拉克是不是对美国国家安全的imminent threat, 值不值得用大规模地面战争来解决?归根结底布什错误估计了伊拉克对美国的威胁程度,发动了错误的战争,是美国历史上最严重的一个战略决策失误。

link


萨达姆派他的高级情报人员与基地组织街头,克林顿有什么办法没有?
萨达姆让基地外围组织在伊拉克搞训练营地,克林顿有什么办法没有?

证据,证据。

今日评论员 说...

>>证据,证据。

你连9-11委员会的报告里面公开的事实都要否认:

官方的9-11调查报告中关于萨达姆和基地组织的联系的详细文本和具体页码。September 11 Commission report: Links between Saddam and AQ

Saddam's relationship with AQ.

Ansar Al-Islam: Iraq's Al-Qaeda Connection

Both al-Qaeda operatives and Iraqi intelligence officers reportedly backed Ansar al-Islam, an Islamist militia fighting U.S.-backed Kurds who opposed Saddam Hussein’s government. In the 2003 Iraq war, U.S. warplanes destroyed the Ansar camps in northeastern Iraq.

现场评论:看美联社(AP)是怎样报道今晚的布什讲话的
美国9-11调查委员会的正式报告中,还有其他情报显示,萨达姆政权和本拉登的恐怖组织一直有着联系。9-11之前,萨达姆派他的高级情报官员与基地组织的恐怖头子会面。效忠基地组织的某些外围组织展期公开地在伊拉克活动。


>> Plame是不是COVERT AGENT ?

你还是没能回答"是"或"否"。想SPIN成“是”又不敢?原来Fitz这么愚蠢,连Plame是Covert都不敢在起诉书中指名?3000多次谎言了,还要再用更多的谎言来圆谎?


>> 威胁使用武力的确起到了迫使萨达姆合作的作用

你承认骗子总统的所谓containment不起作用了?

>> 非法挪用几百亿美元的国家元首多了,也没见都挨美国轰炸占领。

你这是严重地偷换概念。萨达姆非法挪用的问题不只是一个经济犯罪的问题,而更是他通过这种手段来逃避联合国的制裁,发展自己的军事力量的大问题。

>> 如果当时允许Hans Blix完成工作,确认了伊拉克确实没有多少违禁武器

Hans Blix的调查有可信度?萨达姆让他不要检查萨达姆的行宫,他就果然不去查,至少不让专业人员去检查。这样的调查不管出什么结果都是不会被承认的。

ausobserver 说...

Hans Blix的调查有可信度?萨达姆让他不要检查萨达姆的行宫,他就果然不去查,至少不让专业人员去检查。这样的调查不管出什么结果都是不会被承认的。

david kay 应该在你眼里有可信度了吧。可惜他也没找到啥。

匿名 说...

ausobserver,
可惜他也没找到啥

Bin Laden doest not exist because he has not been found and caught?

匿名 说...

ausobserver,
Please read the following:
On April 6, 2003, CENTCOM spokesman, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, told reporters that the Iraqis defending the camp were not run of the mill soldiers.

"The nature of the work being done by some of those people we captured, their inferences about the type of training they received, all these things give us the impression that there is terrorist training that was conducted at Salman Pak," Brooks said.

"Some of them come from Sudan, some from Egypt, some from other places . . . It reinforces the likelihood of links between this regime and external terrorist organizations," the CENTCOM spokesman added.

The CIA's response? Certainly not the kind of intelligence review that would have gotten to the bottom of just what was going on at Salman Pak. In fact, at last report, the Agency accepted the alibi offered by Iraqi officials: that hijack classes staged aboard a parked airliner were actually hijack prevention exercises.

The Agency reacted the same way when Czech intelligence reported that lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague just months before the 9/11 attacks, dismissing the claim despite repeated Czech assertions that it was true.

And when the London Telegraph reported in Dec. 2003 that the interim Iraqi government had uncovered a document that put Mr. Atta in Baghdad in July 2001, anonymous U.S. intelligence sources told Newsweek the document was a probable forgery, citing an Iraqi document expert who hadn't laid eyes on the paper in question.

Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, however, sounded thoroughly impressed by the discovery, telling the Telegraph:

"This is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with Al Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks.'"

Perhaps the CIA has conducted thorough behind-the-scenes investigations of each one of these episodes - and has simply decided not to go public with its smoking gun evidence debunking the claims. But there's nothing to that effect on the public record.

The 9/11 Commission claims to have conclusively determined that Saddam played no role whatsoever in 9/11. But like the CIA, the Commission has earned a reputation for ignoring important and compelling evidence - by burying key testimony that Mohamed Atta had been tracked down by the Able Danger intelligence group before the 9/11 attacks.

Meanwhile, in the only legal test of Saddam's involvement in 9/11 - a May 8, 2003 ruling by U.S. District Judge Harold Baer awarded two 9/11 families $104 million based on what Baer said was Iraq's "material" role in the attacks.

What's more, Oil for Food sleuth Claudia Rosett has offered a compelling, albeit circumstantial, case that Osama bin Laden didn't have the financial wherewithal to bankroll the 9/11 operation while simultaneously underwriting al Qaeda's worldwide network - until Saddam began pouring some of his Oil for Food profits into terrorist coffers.

ausobserver 说...

When you quote an article, please provide the source. Otherwise I can assume it may be written by Jeff Gannon.

bellevue 说...

好了好了,我看 CIA leak case 还是静候司法程序吧。

今评,大家都是有中国生活背景的,还是多讨论与中国相关事情比较发挥特长。最近凤凰卫视人员为中国政府进行间谍活动在洛杉矶被捕,应该是大新闻,但是不要指望那些中共收买的美国中文媒体会好好报道,今评如果有机会还是追踪一下吧。

今日评论员 说...

>> david kay 应该在你眼里有可信度了吧。可惜他也没找到啥。

我的Point是David Kay那样有可信度的调查只能在萨达姆被推翻后。

Blix这个左派在萨达姆眼皮下的调查不管怎样的结果是没有可信度的,所以我们没有必要等下去。

BTW:David Kay的调查并没有说没有WMD。主流媒体搞新闻诈骗,隐瞒的事实是:Kay的其他观点:
1,伊拉克没有大量的WMD储备。他没有否认伊拉克有WMD。

2,伊拉克有清楚的意图来发展WMD。这个意图和过程被美国的入侵打断了。这点完全被左派媒体骗子隐瞒了。

今日评论员 说...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/07/cnna.wilson/

HEMMER: You went to Niger several years ago. You concluded essentially that Iraq could not buy this uranium from that country. Why not?

WILSON: February of 2002 was my most recent trip there, at the request I was told of the office of the vice president, which had seen a report in intelligence channels about this purported memorandum of agreement on uranium sales from Niger to Iraq. I traveled out there, spent eight days out there, and concluded that it was impossible that this sort of transaction could be done clandestinely.


他声称他去非洲的调查是由切尼副总统指派他去的。
拿出原文证据来,不要道听途说。他从来没有声称是切尼指派他去的。

Wilson还声称切尼看过他的报告。那是他的另外的一个谎言。

这是你们混淆视听的一个talking point,拿出wilson说过此话的证据来。